Multi-American ®

One step closer to reaching the American ‘Dream’.

American Dream? My dream isn’t to pay for people who break our laws to take further advantage of our education system. This is more like a nightmare. We don’t have enough debt? How about everyone in this country starts paying taxes instead of freeloading? And people here ILLEGALLY be treated accordingly.

what but i thought illegal aliens came with the sole purpose of stealing your money and your free education, if they didn’t do that that what else would they be doing? all of the jobs you don’t what? but they can’t do that those a reserved for when you feel times are too tough so you can fall on something, who in the right mind thinks its alright to take available jobs when someone might need it in the near future, that’s a crime i tell you a terrible terrible crime

Most undocumented peoples do indeed pay taxes…so I decree you shut you trap and get your facts right, are we clear?

Dear Homer, please be more respectful to all. Commanding someone to “shut you trap…are we clear” is uncalled for and disrespectful and does not further a productive public discussion on this forum.

I am not clear and sure that illegal immigrants truly play taxes. Let’s talk about the type of taxes one can pay in CA. Anyone who visits or resides in the State of California and makes a purchase pays sales tax. Illegal immigrants do not necessarily pay income tax or property tax. However, recent research has shown that illegal immigrants consume and enormous and disproportionate amount entitlements (education, emergency room, and other social services). I will not fully venture into the issue of foreclosures of homes by illegal immigrants. I llegal immigrants simply walked away with no responsibility from homes and property that they foreclosed on. And who paid this bill?…

Our State is nearly bankrupt and overwhelmed by massive and massive DEBT. CA cannot provide the core needed social services to its LEGAL residents and thus has no business providing this tax payer program to ILLEGAL immigrants. Doing so would represent gross abuse of government’s (legislative and executive) fiduciary responsibility. Full Stop.

So, from this non-racist and usually Democratic candidate voting U.S. citizen who pays full taxes, I am entirely against funding a program that provides entitlements to NON-LEGAL/ILLEGAL residents of the State of California. Not on my dime. However, should some of you like to fund this initiatives out of your own pocket, please go ahead.

I agree that everyone should pay taxes…oh wait we already do, lets see my check has always said, x amounts goes to fed, x for med, etc…and yet I dont get any benefits at all. In other words from day one that an illegal immigrant starts working, he/she starts paying taxes. with that said, if you dont want illegal ppl to obtain a fair right to fight for a better education, then we should also not be paying taxes.

FYI: Read the bill. PRIVATE scholarship money. Last time I checked, that wasn’t PUBLICLY funded at all.

Dear but I thought…,

Illegal immigrants in the U.S. workforce have been shown to depress wages in several industries such as construction, taxi drivers, factory assembly line work..These are jobs that would be better paid and reduce the employment rate of legal U.S. residents and citizens if illegal immigrants did not take these jobs through falsified government identification and, of course, through employers looking to take more profit with a cheaper workforce but not have to pay the associated taxes. Other U.S. income tax payers pay the costs associated with cheap labor while the law-breaking employers take the profit.

Dear Jgrammatico09, you raise a very good point. One should read the bill. There is a lot buried in there. The devil is always in the details. The loser are legal CA/US residents and citizens who need public resources in this time of dire economic circumstances. I am surprised that the CA legislature has time for this given all the other more pressing issues facing the state of California. But this is a convenient issue to avoid the more painful decisions and discussions. Shame of the elected representatives in Sacramento!

” from day one that an illegal immigrant starts working, he/she starts paying taxes”

They only have payroll deductions withheld from their paycheck (not equivalent to paying taxes as they file returns at the year end with ITIN numbers and receive back more than what was withheld), provided that they used a SS# or work authorization # in order to get the job, otherwise if they work under the table for cash as many do, then they have no with holdings. SS and Med with holdings go into an ETF (Electronic Trust Fund) until they are matched correctly, they do not contribute directly to SS or Med. Thses ETF funds can later be claimed by the person in their own nation under their own nations versions paid by the USA. They can also request that these with holdings be returned when filing their 1040 tax forms. So the claim that they bolster SS or Med funds is a strawman claim.

“if you dont want illegal ppl to obtain a fair right to fight for a better education”

You assume education is a right, it is not. Public education is not a “right” granted to individuals by the Constitution.
San Antonio Independent School Dist. v. Rodriguez,

411 U.S. 1
, 35 (1973)

Illegal aliens have no Constitutional Liberties here and they only attain limited civil rights based on the UNCHR. They have no “fair rights” to fight for. You really should read the US Constitution, especially the Preamble where in it specifically states: “[S]ecure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,” which means to those of us here as citizens. LPR’s are entitled to limited (not full) Constitutional Liberties as they may not own a firearm (2nd Amendment), etc.

I completely agree with a lot of things you mentioned on your post. Although there is one thing that you don’t capture. This is the fact that, illegal immigrants that work in the states are paying more taxes than anyone else. They work. Get a paycheck. Get taxes taken away from their paychecks like anyone else. And then, they don’t claim taxes. Whether the money is made legally or not, the taxes taken per paycheck are real. MILLIONS of “ILLEGAL” dollars circulate the state. Illegals sure as hell dont get tax returns at the end of the year. But no…other than that illegals don’t pay taxes…We ALL pay taxes. We ALL work (legally or illegally) Money does not grow in trees and people always find a away to make it. What you CANT find a way to do, is avoid taxes.

As an illegal student attending San Jose state University, I cant stress enough the importance of this bill. MOST illegals only come for a better future, and a lot of students like myself come because we had no choice. This wasn’t my decision but I’m deciding to make the best out of it. And like any other American citizen, I would like to contribute to the nation as well.It wasn’t a fluke that I got accepted into SJSU. I earned the spot to be there by working hard throughout high school. Helping us now, would be an investment in the long run for America. Some people may say “oh but they’ll run back to where they came from after they get a degree” I can assure them that we wont rush back to our country. As far as i know the United States IS our country.I was raised here. I share common values with my “legal” peers. I am not an alien to this country one bit.

I dont expect you to agree with me of course. Just take a walk in my shoes for a minute. It’s hard to see everyone else have it easy while you work twice as hard. WE shouldn’t be paying for the mistakes and aspirations of our parents, yet we do it on the DAILY. Cut us some slack please

Thanks for not being rude on your post BTW I’m sure everyone appreciates that very much.

 Illegal Immigrants need to be repatriated. They are here unlawfully. 

 Freeloading? who is freeloading the people that are here that WANT to go to school and get jobs to pay taxes or the people that are “illegally” here having kids and living off of welfar.

It always amazes me how people believe they are being victimized by the very poor who have few options.

How is it that people who are in this country illegally can pay less to attend college than legal U.S. citizens from out of state? Who votes for this sort of bullshit legislation?

You are so against “paying” for some kids? You are not paying crap, this only let’s them pay as normal kids do. But I bet you are not outraged for paying the oil companies to make you pay 4 dollar per gallon.

After I got to the ITIN part I stopped reading, you got it wrong. They get an ITIN (Tax identification number) to make their taxes instead of a SSN. to submit tax forms you must either have  an SSN or an ITIN. However to claim taxes  then they must have a SSN. So they pay taxes but are not entitled to tax returns. This is all a profit for the social security, why is social security dying? Let’s ask PG&E and their fat paycheck.

Because they are residents of the sate and to be granted instate tuition they must show tax forms that show their parents have paid their taxes to the state.

Or we can do the smart thing and keep the smart people here, just like we did back in the 20th century when we brought Einstein and other scientists to the US. It was definitely beneficial to keep the brighter immigrants, after all, had it not been for them the US wouldn’t have finished the first atomic bomb that granted it it’s maximum power and won us WW2 before the Russians got their hands in one.

Sorry Manuel, but you in fact have it wrong. You see, the only tax credit that an ITIN number doesn’t allow one to take is the earned income tax credit, all other tax credits can be received.
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=222209,00.html

As for your SS claim, you are worng there as well, since the funds go into an Electronic Trust Fund account until it is matched to the correct SS number. (SS funds go to the Treasury, not IRS) You seem to know very little yet make claims of knowledge you lack possession of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_%28United_States%29

Liquidmicro,
 
I’m sorry to dissapoint you but you may be aware that wikipedia sources tend to be flawed or skewed most of the times.
 
Also shows your lack of knowledge in the following mentioned statement,  “it can later be claimed by the person in their own nation under their own ations versions paid by the USA. They can also request that these with holdings be returned when filing their 1040 tax forms. So the claim that they bolster SS or Med funds is a strawman claim.”

It is absolutely false that an illegal person can claim SS or Medicare benefits in their country of origin.

Consult the official government website for better source of information sir.

Maybe you should actually do some research yourself there IRS, look into what are called Totalization Agreements, better yet here is the link: http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico.htm
also here from the SS Administration: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/international/

Look at that, not wiki but the US Gov’t pages for which Wiki is factually correct about (I would suggest looking at and reading the footnotes that are referenced).

I suggest you head your own advice before inserting your foot in your mouth and looking foolish by attempting to know something that you obviously do not. So please, prove me false.

Here’s another good link: http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/102800.asp

It states: January 4, 2007 (Washington,
DC) – After numerous refusals over three and a half years, the Social
Security Administration (SSA) has released the first known public copy
of the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement. The
government made the disclosure in response to lawsuits filed under the
Freedom of Information Act by TREA Senior Citizens League, a 1.2 million
member nonpartisan seniors advocacy group.

In addition, that worker could be able to claim credits for work
performed while in the U.S. illegally. The SSA maintains an “earnings
suspense file,” which tracks wages that cannot be posted to individual
workers’ records because there is no match for a name and Social
Security number. Once an immigrant gains access to a work authorized
Social Security number – whether a legal citizen or not – wages earned
while in the U.S. unlawfully could be reinstated to the worker’s new
Social Security account.

But wait, here’s another directly from SS itself: http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Texts/mexico.html

I ask you again – PROVE ME WRONG!!!

Read this post. This privately funded scholarship would in fact be funded by folk like me…who want the future of our country regardless of their status of immigration to be college educated, so I repeat, shut your trap and sit down, you lost.

That’s a great story and more power to you, but you are only one of the BILLIONS of others WORLD wide that want to come here for the same thing and there will never be enough land or social services to sustain that population, plain and simple. We have laws in this country, I have to obide by them and so should everyone else that steps foot on American soil.

it is apparent that you are not a finance saby person…the only reason that the country is so in debt is because the US thought it would be easier to just print a lot of money to pay off those debts that they have with foreign countries.  Please do not ignore the fact that the US is a consumerist country and that we do not produce enough goods to sustain our own nation.

it is apparent that you are not a finance saby person…the only reason that the country is so in debt is because the US thought it would be easier to just print a lot of money to pay off those debts that they have with foreign countries.  Please do not ignore the fact that the US is a consumerist country and that we do not produce enough goods to sustain our own nation.

Legal American: just so you know a lot of  undocumented civilians do pay taxes. The IRS gives them a number so they can pay taxes, and yet we aren’t granted to be residents. Also i have never broken the law for all the years i have been living here not once nor have my parents who by the way also pay taxes. 

Many undocumented individuals who are already working, unfortunately, with false documents, are paying into the system…they get social security taken out of their pay checks, etc.  But guess what?  They will never be able to collect that money that was taken out of their paychecks!  So why is our Social Security System so screwed up and in such financial disaray?! These individuals already pay into our “system” and the majority of the young people currently affected because they can no longer pursue their dream of higher education, have never even been to the country of their birth; they only know US as their homeland.  Yet, uneducated, insecure, ignorant individuals are siting untruths and unfounded facts to disway from the truth.

Please read my other comments in this discussion, you will find out many things that disprove your comment. For one, SS and Medicare funds go into an ETF account until matched to a SS number. Many countries including Mexico have Totalization Agreements with the USA, for which those working here in violation of immigration laws can actually collect there money from their home nations.

i noe we can do it and those people who dont like it they are so dumb because they didnt do anything in there life and want other people to be like them but no we are stronger and believe in an american dream

how do u want them to pay property taxes if they cant even buy a house u dumb head

Wow, you call others “dumb” yet your spelling is atrocious. Your “American Dream” is stolen property and you seem to be undeserving. Maybe nest time you comment you can do so with some actual intellect, schooling doesn’t appear to be working for you. I want my money back.

Property tax’s are paid even if they rent, you don’t have to own a house to pay property tax. And you call others “dumb head”, boy aren’t you a real waste of tax payers money.

DREAMers were brought into the country without their consent. Now that they are grown and wanting to be an educated, contributing member of society, it is completely asinine to deny them this opportunity.  Students take out loans that accumulate interest that gets paid straight into the state’s pocket. They get educated, our population of educated youth grows, and the state gets paid. Get your head out of your ass. Thanks.
–Another Legal American

rather than telling people to “shut your trap” – get your fact right – it’s estimated by that only 45% of “illegal immigrants” pay taxes.  Less than half.  Also, what about the American citizen?  Giving a Federal Grant (tax payer monies) to someone here illegally has just denied an American citizen of that privilege.  Those are the facts.

It seems to me that getting closer to an “American Dream” has literally no relevance to this writing whatsoever. Admittedly I am simply at odds with this notion of “MULTI-AMERICAN” as it ostensibly moves back in time such as “to each his own” or “it’s a mixed bag,” or something dreadfully out of the 1970s. The reference to the words in quotes is that they come from time-period songs.

Quite openly it seems far more worth the legislative prowess to remedy the entire situation of illegal aliens that those of the state of California must deal with, for example: It seems unbelievable to me that a person could be brought here to the USA say at age of ten; all things being equal that same person who has had eight or more years to solidify their status within the country haven’t done so. Why? Simply because there is no vehicle by which to do so; subsequently, rather than see the state’s debt continue to rise vis-a-vie entitlements for those who do not qualify, it seems that legislation take that point squarely on the chin and get something done about it.

There is nothing – absolutely nothing – more offensive for me on this planet that to see illegal aliens standing in their cap and gowns either pre or post graduation holding signs that espouse: “What now?” Please – and respond if you will to the following; males and females can enlist in the armed forces of our nation at 18 years of age, and for some even at a lesser age; and, we all know that one need not receive a diploma to be wearing cap and gowns whilst participating in graduation ceremonies.

I can understand the circumstances that most students feel about the dream act. I left my country not by choice but by political issues in my country. My family left everything that we had and came over here. Do I blame my parent’s for dragging me out here? No, I don’t. Not once did I think my parent’s action will cost me my future.  
I worked hard back home and over here.  I came to this country LEGALLY, paid my dues, got a job, attended school and paying taxes where can’t people across the border to do the same.  It’s so easy to point fingers at somebody else then at yourself.
How would the Mexican government or people feel if Americans wanted the same benefits offered in America over there?  Do you think they would like? I definitely don’t think so. We are not being rude, just telling you to follow the LAWS, people are welcome as long as they obey. simple!

Democrat legislators looking for votes, that is who is voting for this BS. Look at the example they give. Let’s give somebody a grant so the can major in Chicano studies…gtreat.

Actually illegal students are only granted in state tuition through a bill passed in California (AB540) which allows any non CA resident instate tuition, this includes Illegal students who have graduated from a CA high school and been here for three years or more and legal citizens of the u.s. So in fact this bill helps out of state citizens as well as immigrant students who have probably been living here most of their life.

“ However, recent research has shown that illegal immigrants consume and enormous and disproportionate amount entitlements (education, emergency room, and other social services). I will not fully venture into the issue of foreclosures of homes by illegal immigrants. I llegal immigrants simply walked away with no responsibility from homes and property that they foreclosed on. And who paid this bill?…”
First of all, the Dream Act is not for EVERY illegal alien in the U.S,  You have to narrow it down a bit… or a lot. This will only help certain STUDENTS who happen to be undocumented for whatever reason. Clearly, your post was driven by emotions. Maybe as soon as you read, or heard the word “illegal” or “undocumented” you decided to write about taxes and foreclosures. Are you kidding me? It sounds like you want to blame all of America’s problems on illegal immigrants. Maybe you should research and inform yourself a bit more. 

I wonder what goes through your head when you think of “paying your taxes.” It seems like you see it as an abstraction. Like some quality that only you posses. Do you really think immigrants have it easy? you think we get free medical care, free pass to anything and everything in America? That’s sad. 

don’t blame the immigrants sir, blame the businessmen whose only value is profitability. 

I agree with you.. I too myself was brought in this country by single mother at the age of 3. I had no voice to my migration. However, I feel more part of this country than the country I was only born in and have no connection or memories of. I am glad this legislation passed. I do agree we have laws and one should abide by them becuase that is what America is based on “A just system” However, is it just for the education system to have educated me all through high school without society reaping in the profits of my knowledge? I have attended community college and have struggled to pay for my schooling. I am an honor student who applied to NYU, USC, and CSU’s and was accepted to all schools! I have paid my college education out of pocket. It is true that my tuition money goes into a pool for “legal” students to receive scholarship, financial aid, and grants to further their education. Arent I already giving back to society by paying my tuition and other citizen students receiving my money to further their education?? If you still dont see my point then maybe you just have a cold heart. Why am I not given that same opportunity if I work full time and at one point almost took 25 units!! Why am I limited to progress and give back to this country that provided my family and I so many blessings. If you want to throw the taxes, illegal wages, law cards in my face… I can tell you I do pay taxes just like anyone else. I dont use anyones social to work. It is also unfair to say that illegals are ciminals, steal, and bring our economy down. It is the very employers who kepp in mind are Legal Americans who provide “under the table” jobs, citizens who murder, rape, torture and sell drugs. So tell me shouldnt I deserve to further my education and  become legal and contribute back in hopes of helping our economy with my knowledge and potential. I must also remind everyone that we are in the “salad bowl of countries”. This country was founded on the base of immigrants coming from overseas. There was a legal system back in the 1700s etc. and people still came to this country. Everyone in this country has had family members who came to this country regardless of status. And I honestly have heard the argument that “why dont you become legal? well I couldnt because my country of origin has no war, much poverty, or dilemmas so I would be able to receive any type of assylum. Unless there is a way and this is where you can actually call me a cheater… I marry one of your Americans and gain legalization and beat your system. How sad is it that was have no compassion for others and regard legal status in a higher level than just accepting and empowering someones abilities and dreams. We all have dreams and it would be a much better world if we would empower and help others!!!

We have to stop this racial stuff, we ALL are AMERICANS… and if HIspanic that’s great an American that speaks 2 languages… but we are Americans first. My daughter has to pay more although she graduated from High School with honors?!!! She is working hard as I am too so that she can graduate.. Stop the race cards stuff. we’re all one.

In my opinion, I don’t think this bill should pass. Tuition fees have already increased and I agree that public money would decrease for necessary social services. Part of the American dream is working hard for the education that you want. I paid for my education by working hard. I think illegal students should also do that. It’s unfair that an illegal student would get financial aid, when an American student doesn’t given everything else equal. 

First to start off illegal immigrants do pay taxes they dont have the advantage like americans to claim a billion things when they file for taxes!
Secod of all… The illegal immigrants who would benefit fro
This are those who are using the resources they have to the fullest! I know sk many Americans who don’t take advantage of the fact that the American government gives them GIVES free money for college! These are some of the Americans who just do enough to graduate high school and get by on a low income job which are the ones who turn out asking the government for food stamps! Ergo, adding to this states debt!
This bill helps these illegal immigrants do something with their lives unlike that immense amount of Americans who don’t!
Third and last! I would suggest you talk to some of these illegal immigrants and look at thugs from their point of view! This is probably one of the worse off countries economically and everything else! If you look at any other countries they help out illegal immigrants have health coverage for all! It is very sad to see that the country that has all different cultures and races can’t seem to be economically stable and you see all this hate. You would be impressed on the educational level of many of these illegal immigrants!

This is such a lame argument. Please make sure next time you comment on some legislative issue you do a thourough research on the subject. First of all, these potential students are not taking funds from the state. If you don’t happen to know what these funds are here is an example; these students will not be able to recieve financial aid, grants or student loans, meaning they wont be further hurting our economy. Second 99% of these students work, meaning they recieve checks. Every percentage that our state deducts from their checks go unclaimed, meaning that the state stays with that money. Unlike us, they never get a refund, like we do in our income taxes. You are so uneducated and stereotypical to ironically profess that all these students “break our laws.” Do us all a favor and please return to school, help our American Society by being a less ignorant person in our society.

you need to fucken go back to ur country and go to school there!!!

If the government would take the time and finger print everyone and give them TIDN the deficit would go down a lot faster, instead of letting kids without getting a proper education. A lot of people who have the opportunity to go to college and they don’t they rather hang out in a corner take more money from the government than those who would love to go to school and get a degree.

The only way this would be a good idea is if they used it as a trap and caught and deported the illiegals who apply!

there is people who was born in USA and they don’t do anything with their life, they cant even graduate from high school. so is good to help people who really what to do something for this country.  

Don’t be ignorant  illegal immigrants don’t break laws. To tell you the trust the people who break the law are mostly Americas. America has debts because of the president that we had before, he didn’t know how to spend the money right and spend it in things that we didn’t even need. There are so many immigrants that do pay taxes, because they don’t like coming to this country to be treated worse for not paying taxes. They are not freeloading, how do we know your not freeloading maybe you have welfare and the immigrants have to pay for your welfare with their taxes. 

You shouldn’t be talking, because what would happen if you were an immigrant and not a U.S. citizen you wouldn’t like it if people were saying the things that you’re saying you should learn to respect and think about other people instead of yourself!!!

Excuse me but there are so many immigrants that do  pay income tax and property tax.

How do we know that you’re not trying to get financial aid. 
Your against this funding program because you’re not an immigrant and you don’t need help like them but if you were and immigrant you wouldn’t be against it so you should think about them too.